Planning
Commission Minutes
MINUTES
Cascade Charter Township Planning Commission
Monday, July 20, 2009
7:00 p.m.
ARTICLE 1. Secretary Sperla called the meeting to order at 7:00
p.m.
Members Present: Lewis, Logue, McCarthy, McDonald, Pennington, Sperla
Members Absent: Hammond (excused), Robinson (excused), Waalkes
(excused).
Others Present: Township Planning Director Peterson, Recording
Secretary Hern and Members of the Public.
ARTICLE 2. Secretary Sperla led the Pledge of Allegiance to the
Flag.
ARTICLE 3. Approval of the Agenda for the July 20, 2009 Planning
Commission Meeting.
Secretary Sperla requested a motion for the approval of the July 20,
2009 Agenda.
Motion was made by Member McDonald and supported by Member
Pennington to approve the Agenda as presented. Motion carried
unanimously.
ARTICLE 4. Approval of the Minutes from the July 6, 2009 Meeting.
Secretary Sperla asked if there were any corrections to the July 6th
Minutes or requested a motion for approval.
Member Logue noted a correction needs to be made on Page 4, last
paragraph containing Member Sperla's motion, the motion needs to
reflect the property location at 2950 Kraft Avenue with a permit
granted to co-locate a microwave dish on the tower at that location.
Motion was made by Member Lewis and supported by Member McCarthy to
approve the July 6, 2009 Minutes as corrected. Motion carried
unanimously.
ARTICLE 5. Case # 08-2960: Forest Hills Golf/Watermark Condo's
(From the Table of January 20, 2009)
Address of Property: 5536 Cascade Road
Requested Action: Basic Plan Review for an amendment to add a new
office/health club.
Motion was made by Member Lewis and supported by Member McDonald to
remove Case # 08-2960: Forest Hills Golf/Watermark Condo's from the
January 20th Table. Motion carried unanimously.
Planning Director Peterson said the Planning Commission last saw
this project on January 20, 2009 and at that meeting, the Commission
gave the Applicant some direction on this project. The Applicant has
attempted to respond to those concerns and is asking that the
Commission review their revised plans.
One of the changes to the plan is the building's location. The
building site has been moved from in front (north) of the clubhouse to
a location west of the clubhouse.
The Applicant has enlarged the fitness center and made the building
a little smaller. It is Staff's preference that the fitness center be
at least half of the building's square footage. There was some support
from the Commissioners in having Watermark's offices within the
building.
Planning Director Peterson said he has spoken with the Applicant
regarding the types of offices within the building and it is Staff's
preference that the offices be limited to "professional"
offices to limit the impact on traffic onto the site and the need for
signage on Cascade Road.
Staff's preference regarding signage for this project is not to
have additional signage and considers the fitness center an amenity to
the country club they have.
Staff indicated the Applicant is looking for the Commissions'
opinion regarding the project prior to it going to Public Hearing.
Planning Director Peterson said there have been some good changes
within the plan. He was hoping to see the fitness center take at least
half of the building's space and wanted the Applicant to have a clear
understanding that there would not be additional signage on Cascade
Road as a result of this project.
The Applicant is here this evening to present the new plans for
further questions of the Commission.
Secretary Sperla opened the meeting for questions for Staff by the
Commission.
Member McDonald asked if the Planning Commission needed to take
action on this case this evening or if they were to provide the
Applicant with their input regarding the project. Planning Director
Peterson said that the Applicant is looking for the Commissions'
feedback prior to investing in the formal drawings and paperwork that
would be required to proceed further with the project.
Member Pennington asked if the main reason Staff does not want
signs on Cascade Road is because of the amount of signs currently
there? Planning Director Peterson clarified that the intent is not to
have any new signs out there and if Watermark would like to change
their existing signage to reflect the fitness center that would be
allowed. Staff's intent is that there not be any additional signage on
Cascade Road due to this project.
Secretary Sperla asked if this project is part of a P.U.D. (Planned
Urban Development) that was previously approved and does the P.U.D.
include a 10,000-square foot limit on all buildings? Planning Director
Peterson clarified that the 10,000-square foot limit comes from the
Cascade Corridor Plan that the Township has used for those buildings
along Cascade Road. The Watermark Clubhouse is larger than
10,000-square feet along with the Fishbeck buildings. Secretary Sperla
asked if the buildings have to have Cascade Road frontage in order to
apply and Planning Director Peterson said it has been applied to the
buildings that are alongside Cascade Road.
There were no further questions of Staff and Secretary Sperla
invited the Applicant to address the Planning Commission.
Wayne Visbeen, Architect for the Applicant, thanked the Commission
for reviewing their plans and providing input.
The first building they proposed was 17,000-square feet that was
two-stories tall plus a lower level for storage and equipment. The new
plan proposes a 7,100-square foot walkout with the building's location
being adjacent to the clubhouse, next to the driving range and the
cart storage area.
As far as the building's use, the Applicant is planning on having
the health facility in the entire lower level with an entrance on the
main level with steps going down to the facility. The walkout entry
would go directly into the health center. The lower level would also
have some additional offices and storage.
The main level would have the professional offices. Mr. Visbeen
noted that he is personally looking into an office in this facility.
He noted the Applicant is trying to comply with the requests and
concerns provided at the January 2009 meeting and with a smaller
facility and new location they believe this is a much better plan. He
believes the new plans fit the character of Watermark.
Mr. Visbeen noted there are potentially three (3) entrances to the
building: one (1) into the health facility and one (1) or two (2) for
the offices depending on the floor plan.
Member McDonald noted the new plan is much more appealing than the
plan presented in January with its location, size and use. Member
McDonald asked if the new proposed location for the building is in the
mound near the dumpster and asked if that mound would be excavated.
Mr. Visbeen distributed updated drawings to the Commission noting that
the building is a walkout and the mound is a natural slope. The side
would face the driving range, the front would face the parking lot and
the back faces the golf cart storage.
Member McDonald asked if the drive along the driving range stays
and Mr. Visbeen said yes.
Secretary Sperla asked if there would be locker room facilities
within the fitness center and Steve Plakmeyer, 2410 Cascade Springs,
said a locker facility has been included for the fitness center within
the building. Adding the locker rooms took the fitness facility's
square footage from approximately 4,200-square feet to 5,000-square
feet. There will be showers, bathrooms and lockers available at the
fitness facility.
Secretary Sperla asked if the Applicant has thought through the
signage and Mr. Visbeen said they would like to have additional
25-square feet but understands Planning Director Peterson prefers they
use the existing signage. Planning Director Peterson noted that the
existing sign is limited to 50-square feet for the golf course. Mr.
Visbeen said they are hoping to add 25-square feet to the current
signage.
Secretary Sperla recalled concern in passing the P.U.D. for the
project and having the P.U.D. change ownership with the new owner
making requests to amend the original P.U.D. Secretary Sperla asked
Member Lewis how he feels this plan fits in with the current P.U.D.
Member Lewis said he does have concerns when introducing new owners to
a P.U.D.
Member Lewis asked if the current Watermark offices are located in
the building by Cascade Road and Mr. Visbeen noted that currently, the
offices are located in the clubhouse and they are running out of room
in the office area. He also noted that there is a small portion of
their business office in the building on Cascade Road but have not
committed to moving those offices into the new facility.
Member Lewis expressed concern in having multiple parties involved
as owners and who the Township is to deal with regarding the P.U.D.
Mr. Visbeen noted that the same people are still involved in the
ownership.
Secretary Sperla asked if the same owner own the golf course,
country club, and fitness facility all? Mr. Visbeen said yes and there
are some new LLC's that have been formed in dealing with the banks,
that is the only difference, the same owners are still involved.
Member McDonald referred to the document dated July 10, 2009 in the
summary where it says that there is a demand from the 500 member
families of the Watermark Country Club and Swim Facility for a fitness
component on the grounds and Staff noted in their report they would
like to see a feasibility study. Were the families actually polled
regarding their needs of this fitness facility? Mr. Visbeen said they
have spoken with the members and have spoken with the Association's
Board. They shared their original plans with the Association Board who
was very supportive of the facility, as it seemed to be one area the
country club was lacking in terms of fitness component. They have
recently met with the Association and shared the new plan and favored
the new plan as well. He said they could poll the members and the
community for their opinions regarding the project but believes there
would be a high majority in favor of the project. Mr. Visbeen also
noted that when potential members inquire to membership at Watermark,
they often ask if the facility has a fitness center and, currently,
that is the one (1) component missing and many potential members do
not join because there is no fitness center. He further clarified that
they have spoken to the Association Board Members but have not polled
the community because they do not want to promote plans that might
change after the Planning Commissions' review.
Member Lewis noted that he is a member at Watermark and after the
first presentation amongst other members; the members were discouraged
with the initial location of the facility. After reviewing the
building's new location, Member Lewis spoke with a couple of members
and the new location is much more favorable and complimented the
Applicant in making the changes.
Secretary Sperla asked if the new drawings are what they have in
mind for the project and Mr. Visbeen said these are the plans.
Secretary Sperla asked if the facade for the fitness center is
compatible with the country club and Mr. Visbeen said it is.
Member McDonald noted that the Applicant's report also notes that
the architects will be incorporating many green aspects into the new
building and asked what they are proposing at this point. Mr. Visbeen
said he is proposing geothermal and would like to make this a very
state-of-the-art green building. The building will be under Energy
Star that goes for silver, gold, platinum levels and hopes to make it
a green building and targeting energy conservation.
Member McCarthy asked in the previous plans there was a proposal to
redesign the parking lot and the new plans look like they have gone
back to the existing parking lot? Mr. Visbeen said they have gone back
to the existing parking lot with minor adjustments with some
additional spaces by moving a curb-cut down with an option to add
parking, if needed, towards the north end.
Planning Director Peterson noted that this type of detail will be
included once the Township receives the formal site plans along with
other project details.
Member McCarthy also said she has a concern of the width of the
drive going down the side with the parking spaces along with the tree
that is located on the corner. Mr. Visbeen said that those are
specific issues they have not addressed yet and will once they have
received the Commissions' support of the new plans.
Member McCarthy asked why the offices were put on the main floor
and the health club in the lower level? Mr. Visbeen said that the
health club should be located on the lower level, on top of the
concrete to support the machines and the weight equipment. Having the
office entrance on the main floor also allows them to have a beautiful
entrance and the steps to the health facility are often viewed as a
"game" to the members and they do not mind going up and down
stairways as compared to those who visit an office.
Secretary Sperla asked how profitable it is to have offices in the
building that are not tied-in with the fitness club, such as an
outside lawyers office or doctors office? Mr. Visbeen noted that the
office is a destination and being located on the site of a country
club is beneficial as he can walk to lunch, as an example.
Secretary Sperla noted that the architect plans to have his office
in the building along with the health club's offices, is there anyone
else that currently has interest in having an office in the building.
Mr. Visbeen said there is an interior designer who is interested in
sharing amenities with Mr. Visbeen's architectural firm.
Member Lewis asked if the building would block the view from the
country club's main banquet room and Mr. Visbeen said the buildings
are 50-feet apart and the building is set back from the country club
so the view to the 18th green will remain the same very much as it is
today and does not foresee a problem.
Secretary Sperla asked Staff if the construction of the new
building would require an amendment to the current P.U.D. Planning
Director Peterson said it would. He noted that adding the new
building, any changes to signage, approving the site plan are some
basic things that would need to be amended. Secretary Sperla said he
is not in favor of numerous changes to a P.U.D. as they are usually
heavily negotiated between the Township and the original owners. He
would like to keep the amendments to a minimum. Secretary Sperla said
he would also like to keep the current signage square footage as it
currently is as this is not a high commercial area and the signage
along the road is minimal and very low and he would like to see
minimal changes to the signage currently on Cascade Road.
Planning Director Peterson shared his perspective on the signage,
the Township does allow for up to 64-square feet for non-residential
use in a residential zone. If this were allowed, however, Staff
believes it would open the requests from other offices in the area to
request the maximum 64-square feet for their signage.
Member Pennington said that he thinks the new plan is a good one
and does not have any concerns regarding the split between the office
space and fitness center.
Member Lewis said that he would prefer the building to be
10,000-square feet and Mr. Visbeen said they did review the area with
a 10,000-square foot footprint that was a single floor and it had more
of a visual impact on the site and believe the current, 7,000-square
foot footprint is more visually appealing and has less impact on the
site. From an architectural perspective, the office space needs
6,000-square feet, the health club needs 6,000 feet, etc. and hopes
the Planning Commission will consider the 7,000-square foot footprint
as it is most economical and would be the most visually appealing.
Member McDonald noted that with the 7,000-square foot footprint the
Applicant is minimizing the impact on the site. In reviewing the
current plan, he is not as adamant about the 10,000-square foot
building if the building at 7,000-square feet as presented this
evening is the building that is constructed. Mr. Visbeen noted that
with the building being stacked on a natural slope it will help with
making the building a green building.
Member McDonald noted that the plan is nicely done as presented as
it is not obtrusive to the residents in the area and is done
professionally and discreetly. He likes the project and concurs with
the comments regarding the signs.
Secretary Sperla remains concerned with the P.U.D. amendments. He
likes the way the building fits in and the closer the building can be
at 10,000-square feet the more favorable that would be. Member
Pennington said he does not agree with having the building's size come
close to 10,000-square feet when the building is well done with the
7,000-square foot footprint.
Member Lewis noted that members of the community do read the
ordinance with the 10,000-square foot footprint and the Master Plan
was recently amended and the community's feelings are to keep Cascade
Road the way it is. This building is much better than the one first
proposed and he is in favor of the project.
Member Logue questioned if all of the buildings within the P.U.D.
have been built out and if those tenants will view this as an
opportunity to expand. Could the fitness center be added onto the
clubhouse? Mr. Visbeen said that the site has over 200-acres and makes
this P.U.D. very unique as it is a golf club with its own P.U.D. and
asked if there were any others within the Township. Planning Director
Peterson noted Centennial Country Club and Quail Ridge have their own
P.U.D.'s.
Planning Director Peterson addressed Member Logue's concerns noting
that the clubhouse was limited to 30,000-square feet when it
originally went in and is built out.
Member McDonald noted that one of the purposes of a P.U.D. is that
there is room for flexibility and negotiation within the ordinances
and to handle specific requirements and the Applicant has met some of
the concerns expressed at the January meeting. He believes that Member
Logue's concern is in setting precedence but does not believe allowing
this project would do so since this is a unique P.U.D. and it is
adding a specific building for specific purposes.
Secretary Sperla believes that when negotiations take place it
should be done all at once and not in pieces, otherwise, they can keep
chipping away at the compromises made early on become meaningless. He
believes this should be done for all P.U.D.'s and that all aspects and
potential should be reviewed early on.
Secretary Sperla also clarified that a 10,000-square foot footprint
is not what he prefers but he does prefer to see a footprint that is
closer to the 10,000 to 14,000-square feet as it might be viewed more
favorably.
Member McDonald said that he agrees to a point and noted that the
Planning Commission does have the final say in the building plans. At
this time he is hearing more favorable responses to the smaller
footprint.
He also noted that P.U.D.'s are developed when there is not a need
for something, such as a fitness center. People's needs change and now
there is an interest in having a fitness center on the site and agrees
that he does not like seeing amendments to P.U.D.'s four or five
times. This project, however, seems to be a reasonable change that is
not encroaching on any of the neighbors, the residents or the
development.
Mr. Visbeen noted the economic climate is different and adding a
health center would make the project work.
Secretary Sperla said if the building were totally designated as a
health center, he would not have any issues with the project as it
supports the club. Since there is office space within the building he
has some concerns with the amendments. Mr. Visbeen noted the health
club is fifty percent of the building and there is additional storage,
mechanical room, etc. on that level that equals 7,000-square feet
along with the 7,000-square feet for the office level; it is just not
all lease able space. Member McDonald noted to the Applicant that it
would be very helpful to the Planning Commission if they could know
the exact usage planned for the building's square footage and Mr.
Visbeen said he could add 500-feet here and revise the plans to show
the mechanical rooms, storage, etc.
Mr. Visbeen asked the Planning Commission if they favored the
updated plans and if it compatible with the club and if it is
compatible with the neighbors. Mr. Visbeen said he is sensing both
very favorable feedback and negative feedback and does not wish to
proceed any further until he has clearer direction.
Member Lewis noted that the Planning Commission is not voting upon
the plans as they have been presented this evening but is hearing from
the Commission favor of the new plans for the site.
Secretary Sperla said that when the project reaches the point of
having definitive plans regarding the building's construction; he will
be very interested in the building's details to ensure that the plans
presented are the plans that are implemented by the Applicant.
Member McCarthy said the new plan has vastly been improved upon
since the plan originally submitted in January. She was not a part of
the original Planning Commission when this P.U.D. was developed and
she did find the documentation regarding the last amendment that was
done twelve (12) years ago and the world has vastly changed during
that time. She said she is not opposed to amending a P.U.D. but does
share her colleague's concerns in having reasonable amendments. She
looks forward to reviewing the specifics for this project.
Secretary Sperla thanked the Applicant for their added effort in
developing a more favorable site plan.
Planning Director Peterson said the direction he will provide to
the Applicant is to proceed with their documents and to go forward in
the process to a Public Hearing. He noted that the next phase would
include the detailed site plan review for the Public Hearing. Member
Lewis said the Commission would like to see the detail regarding the
square footage devoted to the health club, storage space and office
space. Member McDonald added that the more space that the fitness
related area takes in the lower level the more favorable the project
will be with the Township, they would like the health facility to be
in more than 50% (fifty) of the building.
ARTICLE 6. Any Other Business.
Secretary Sperla opened the meeting for any other business. There was
no other business of the Planning Commission.
Planning Director Peterson noted that Centennial Park Overlay Zone
and Farmland Preservation sections of the amendments for the Zoning
Ordinance are next for review. Chairman Robinson has requested to
attend the committee meetings and Staff is looking for any other
interested Commissioners, approximately two (2) or three (3)
volunteers. The meeting date has not been established yet.
Secretary Sperla noted that Member Hammond lives in Centennial Park
and believes he would be an interested participant on the committee.
Member Logue said he is interested in serving on both committees:
Centennial Park and Farmland Preservation. Member McDonald said that
if a fourth volunteer is needed, he would be available and Member
Lewis said he would be available as well if needed.
Planning Director Peterson said that if someone's plans change he
will contact either Member Lewis or Member McDonald for their
availability.
ARTICLE 8. Adjournment
Secretary Sperla requested a motion for adjournment.
Motion was made by Member Lewis and supported by Member McDonald to
adjourn. Motion carried unanimously and the meeting was adjourned at
8:10 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
John Sperla, Secretary
Lisa Hern, Recording Secretary
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